03/10/1998 08:00 AM House STA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
March 10, 1998
8:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Chair
Representative Ethan Berkowitz
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Kim Elton
Representative Mark Hodgins
Representative Al Vezey
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Ivan Ivan, Vice Chairman
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
OVERVIEW OF VPSO PROGRAM, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
HOUSE BILL NO. 359
"An Act relating to regulation of health insurance plans; and
providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 359(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 329
"An Act amending the definition of correctional facility to include
a therapeutic treatment center; providing for the conveyance of the
Harborview Developmental Center and appurtenant land to the City of
Valdez for the purpose of conversion and lease of a part of the
center for a therapeutic treatment center for the Department of
Corrections; providing that such a land conveyance counts toward
the general grant land entitlement of the City of Valdez; and
providing for an effective date."
- MOVED HB 329 OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 449
"An Act relating to certain individual retirement accounts."
- MOVED CSHB 449(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 376
"An Act limiting the use of voter registration information."
- MOVED CSHB 376(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 359
SHORT TITLE: HEALTH INSURANCE REGULATION
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) RYAN
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
01/28/98 2153 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/28/98 2153 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, LABOR & COMMERCE
03/03/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/03/98 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/05/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/05/98 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/07/98 (H) STA AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/07/98 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/10/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 329
SHORT TITLE: HARBORVIEW DEVELOPMENTAL CENTER
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
01/16/98 2068 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/16/98 2068 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
01/16/98 2068 (H) FISCAL NOTE (COR)
01/16/98 2068 (H) 3 ZERO FNS (ADM, DHSS, DNR)
01/16/98 2068 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
03/03/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/03/98 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/05/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/05/98 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/07/98 (H) STA AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/07/98 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/10/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 449
SHORT TITLE: ROTH IRA EXEMPTION
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) THERRIAULT
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/18/98 2361 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/18/98 2361 (H) STATE AFFAIRS
03/10/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 376
SHORT TITLE: LIMIT USE OF VOTER REGISTRATION INFO
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) CROFT, Kemplen, Dyson
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/02/98 2203 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/02/98 2203 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/04/98 2523 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KEMPLEN, DYSON
03/10/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
WITNESS REGISTER
CAPTAIN GLEN FLOTHE, Program Manager
Village Public Safety Program
Department of Public Safety
(Address not provided)
Telephone: (Not provided)
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the overview of VPSO Program.
COLONEL GLENN GODFREY, Director
Division of Alaska State Troopers
Department of Public Safety
5700 East Tudor Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99507-1225
Telephone: (907) 269-5641
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the overview of VPSO Program.
LARRY STREUBER
Facilities/Planning Chief
Division of Administrative Services
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110650
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0650
Telephone: (907) 465-1870
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 329.
JOSEPH BALASH, Legislative Secretary
to Representative Gene Therriault
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 511
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4797
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented sponsor statement for HB 449.
THOMAS YERBICH, Attorney
329 "F" Street, Suite 210
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Telephone: (907) 274-5631
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 449.
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 430
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4998
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 376.
KENNETH BREWSTER
201 Heintzleman Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Telephone: (907) 274-0149
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 376.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-34, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES called the House State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 8:00 a.m. Members present were
Representatives James, Berkowitz, Dyson, Elton, Hodgins and Vezey.
OVERVIEW OF VPSO PROGRAM, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
CAPTAIN GLEN FLOTHE, Program Manager, Village Public Safety
Program, Department of Public Safety, presented information
regarding the Village Public Safety Officer Program in Alaska. He
also discussed the Village Police Officer Program.
COLONEL GLENN GODFREY, Director, Division of Alaska State Troopers,
Department of Public Safety, presented additional information about
the programs.
COMMITTEE ACTION
The committee took no action.
NOTE:
The meeting was recorded (Tape 98-34, Sides A & B) and handwritten
log notes were taken. A copy of the tape(s) and log notes may be
obtained by contacting the House Records Office at 130 Seward
Street, Suite 211, Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182, (907) 465-2214, and
after adjournment of the second session of the Twentieth Alaska
State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.
HB 359 - HEALTH INSURANCE REGULATION
TAPE 98-34, SIDE B
Number 0980
CHAIR JAMES announced the committee would hear HB 359, "An Act
relating to regulation of health insurance plans; and providing for
an effective date." She said she hasn't had a chance to listen to
the Children's Caucus tapes that were provided to her. Chair James
said Representative Dyson is willing to give an overview of the
comments that were made in the Children's Caucus.
Number 1000
REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN noted there is a proposed committee
substitute (CS) which takes care of some of the fiscal concerns of
the department. He said, "We have held the Appeals Committee
harmless so we don't need a AG and we've also stated that they
don't need staff support. It will be -- any costs incurred in the
meetings and so forth will be paid for by the insurance company.
So it dramatically reduces any fiscal impact and since there is not
personal services, there is no reason for $34,000 and $48,000 worth
of travel and supplies and equipment and so forth. I am still not
sure what the contractual amount is, but since we don't have state
employees performing these functions as it is taken care of on the
other end, I would think that the contractual should go away too.
So that makes your committee fiscal note appropriate."
CHAIR JAMES said she would accept a motion to put the CS, Version
B, dated 3/5/98, before the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON moved the CS be put before the committee.
There being no objection, CSHB 359, Version B, was before the
committee.
REPRESENTATIVE ETHAN BERKOWITZ asked if the only change is on page
9 to Section 21.07.110.
REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN said the last sentence in (e) of Section
21.07.090 has been removed. Also removed is the last sentence in
(a) of Section 21.07.110.
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON referred to the testimony given in the
Children's Caucus and said most of the people there were Alaskan
service providers. They expressed a great deal of frustration with
the Administration having to deal with time zones and calling
somebody in Tennessee to get authorization to proceed with a
treatment plan. He said the Administration, who was there,
admitted that there had been a whole bunch of start-up problems.
Representative Ryan stated there was also testimony about the
difficulty of getting people in Tennessee to understand Alaska, the
logistics problem and how isolated many care providers are. He
continued to inform the committee of the problems such as fetal
alcohol syndrome, fetal alcohol effects, child abuse problems, et
cetera.
CHAIR JAMES asked, "Were they supportive of this piece of
legislation?"
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said his recollection is that this specific
legislation wasn't presented to them, but universally the folks
that testified didn't like the change, didn't like dealing with
somebody outside the state and didn't like having to get over a
huge hurdle in order to (indisc.) treatment. They were wanting to
deal with somebody locally and somebody with knowledge of the
unique situations of our environment.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said, "My recollection of the situation arose
out of the Tennessee vender is that a large part of the problem
came from this end, came from some rather nonspecific contract
language that the department had with the Tennessee people - came
with some things that I think the department probably should have
anticipated in setting up a system like (indisc.). And this piece
of the legislation deals with (indisc.). This piece of legislation
deals with what the insurer's obligation may be and it doesn't
really address the situation that occurred with the Tennessee end.
I don't find myself blaming the Tennessee people as much as I do
the people who did the contract with the Tennessee people. So it
seems to me that we're solving it by fixing the wrong end."
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN pointed out that there is an appeal process in
the Department of Health and Social Services.
TAPE 98-35, SIDE A
Number 0001
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said, "Under this legislation, we have this
independent board which is made up of a diverse group of
individuals, who may - not all of whom may have esoteric knowledge,
but who look at it from a consumer point of view, and especially
the public people who will ask the questions of the professionals
which sometimes get to be embarrassing."
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said he was at the caucus. He said, "Part of
the frustration with the people, as I recall - I was at the meeting
that Representative Dyson (indisc.), was providers who are having
to prepare an hour, an hour and a half, two hours before they made
this phone call. And they were professionals who were treating a
patient, who had the credentials. And instead of the people in
Tennessee saying, 'Have you done ba, ba, ba and ba,' they would
say, 'You just tell us the symptoms and we'll make the diagnosis.'"
He continued to discuss the expenses involved and the people in
Tennessee questioning the doctors who have the credentials.
Number 0089
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said he thinks the way to solve the problem is
to fix it at this end rather than regulate industry.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said that apparently the Tennessee
organization has done well on other similar things in the past, but
the learning curve for them and never having a presence in Alaska,
produces all these unfortunate results that he doesn't think were
intended to happen. He said, "I think probably we should buy our
way out of this contract and start over. That would be my
solution."
Number 0162
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS made a motion to move CSHB 359 out of
committee with individual recommendations and with the attached
zero fiscal note. There being no objection, CSHB 359(STA) moved
out of the House State Affairs Standing Committee.
HB 329 - HARBORVIEW DEVELOPMENTAL CENTER
Number 0171
CHAIR JAMES announced the next order of business would be HB 329,
"An Act amending the definition of correctional facility to include
a therapeutic treatment center; providing for the conveyance of the
Harborview Developmental Center and appurtenant land to the City of
Valdez for the purpose of conversion and lease of a part of the
center for a therapeutic treatment center for the Department of
Corrections; providing that such a land conveyance counts toward
the general grant land entitlement of the City of Valdez; and
providing for an effective date," sponsored by Rules by request of
the Governor. She informed the committee that the bill had been
previously heard.
Number 0201
LARRY STREUBER, Facilities/Planning Chief, Division of
Administrative Services, Department of Health and Social Services,
came before the committee. He said Harborview, for many years, was
the facility in the state for the developmentally disabled
population. Three years ago a decision was made to close
Harborview and move the residents out into community settings.
Harborview is a valuable asset and to protect Harborview the
Department of Health and Social Services implemented an asset
protection plan January 1. Mr. Streuber informed the committee
that when all the residents were moved out, the department divided
the mechanical electrical operations of the building into logical
units and reduced the energy necessary to keep the building
functional, but not operating at full capacity. One maintenance
mechanic was retained to oversee the operations of the whole
building. He said he would like to point out that the Valdez
Regional Health Authority, which has the community hospital, still
occupies approximately 17 percent of that complex. An important
point to note is that if the facility isn't transferred to the city
of Valdez, it remains a state responsibility. He stated that the
state will have the responsibility to protect that building and
take care of it until a final disposal can be arranged. If the
building is to remain in state ownership, in fiscal year (FY) 99
the department estimates that it would take about $265,000 to keep
that building in asset protection.
CHAIR JAMES asked if there were any questions. There being none,
she asked if anybody was willing to make a motion to move the bill.
Number 0233
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ made a motion to move HB 329 out of
committee with the attached fiscal notes and with individual
recommendations.
Number 0242
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON objected. He stated that was asked to read a
missive from Senator Jerry Ward. He read, "As chair of the Senate
Finance Subcommittee on Corrections, my concerns are not directed
toward the merit of filling the economic void left by the
Governor's decision to close the Harborview Hospital or the clear
and present need for a substance abuse treatment amongst the
majority of Alaska's inmates. My concerns question whether funding
is small isolated therapeutic (indisc.) is the highest and best
used of correctional resources at a time when our prisons and jails
are faced with the worst overcrowding in state history. I need not
remind the committee that the Department of Corrections' operating
budget is the fastest growing budget amongst the state agencies.
Revenue enhancement, programs efficiencies, economies of scale, are
but a few of the messes we're trying to ploy to hold the line in
Corrections' spending. The Harborview proposal doesn't simply fail
the wide stewardship tests, if there is no rational relationship to
the commitment we have to reduce unnecessary spending and increase
government efficiency. At a daily operating rate of $124.37 per
inmate, per bed, the Harborview proposal ranks as a third highest
bed rate in Alaska. Only Bethel and Ketchikan slightly edge out
the Harborview - is the costliest correction service in the state.
Indeed when custody is considered, these are the most expensive low
custody beds in the nation. These inmates are indeed low custody.
Wouldn't it be wiser to establish therapeutic pre-release
communities -- the existing half-way house at two-thirds to one-
half the cost? Again, I do not dispute the need for this type of
program for Alaska's felony inmate population. These programs,
however, must be funded in the context of our higher need for safe
secure prisons and jails. There can be no question that
Corrections can achieve a significantly better bang for it's buck
by developing programs of sites that are closer to professional
treatment resources which provided greater economies of scale. The
formula we must apply in the committee is the greatest service for
the highest number of offenders or lowest cost without unreasonable
reduction in quality. The Harborview proposal fails this test.
Corrections has several sites which house hundreds of low custody
prisoners. There is no reason for a therapeutic community cannot
be established within the confines and programmatic structures of
existing facility or halfway house. Indeed, the Palmer
Correctional Center at Sutton was the preferred site for the
program of the last Administration. That whole plan was scrapped
in this Administration for reasons that appear to have little to do
with sound correction practice. Indeed, the economies of scale,
extraordinary facilities and lower costs to the proposed Fort
Greely prison makes more sense than the Harborview proposal. The
legislature chooses to fund this program. Let's call it what it
is, gratuitous government handout to the city of Valdez. There are
at times sound policy reasons for such government subsidies and
this may be one of those times, but let's not fool ourselves into
believing this proposal is the wisest use of correction resources
or is, as the commissioner so often says, sound correctional
practice. Thank you for your attention and consideration."
Number 0307
CHAIR JAMES noted she spoke with Senator Ward's staff the previous
day and there was a request to hold the bill. She said his reason
is purely financial. Chair James said that is not an issue for the
State Affairs Committee, it is an issue for the Finance Committee.
She noted the next committee of referral is the Judiciary
Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON questioned what the responsibility is of the
State Affairs Committee.
CHAIR JAMES stated there are certain agencies that the State
Affairs Committee does overlook. One is the Troopers and the
Department of Transportation, the Department of Administration, but
actually any bill could fall within the committee's purview. Chair
James said although the committee's purview is financial as well as
it is Judiciary, as well as how it affects other issues, the
primary responsibility for the financial decisions is in the
Finance Committee. If that is the only reason why this bill should
not go forward, the proper place to make that decision is in the
Finance Committee.
Number 0341
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said, "If indeed it was rational to send this
bill to us, what's our responsibility? What are the questions we
should be asking? What are the public policy issues involved in
this bill that we have a responsibility for? They escape me."
CHAIR JAMES responded, "Before I try really hard to not answer your
question again, Representative Dyson, well maybe Representative
Vezey wants to shed some light on that issue or maybe he has a
different idea that he wants to speak about. So Representative
Vezey, you're up."
Number 0354
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he would like to change the subject. He
stated he cannot vote to move HB 329 out of committee with the
current fiscal notes. He stated a fiscal note is an authorization
of spending and there is no way he would vote for that level of
spending. He said if the committee or sponsor wants to revise the
fiscal note, he would give the bill due consideration.
Number 0365
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON stated he is interested in the bill simply
because he thinks the affairs of the state are well served by
whether or not we're releasing people who are closer to
rehabilitation than not. He said he believes that is an issue that
should be considered in the State Affairs Committee and the other
committees. He referred to the fiscal note and said the
unfortunate thing about a fiscal note is a fiscal note tells us
what we're going to be spending now. A fiscal note doesn't
necessarily reflect what we're going to be saving in the future.
Representative Elton said there is a cost to rehabilitation and it
is an up-front cost and the fiscal note reflects that we've got to
pay it. The fiscal note doesn't reflect what will be saved in the
future. He said he believes the experience in other jurisdictions
has shown that we won't get 100 percent rehabilitation. The
experience in other jurisdictions has reflected that there will be
a significant cost savings in the future because some of these
people aren't going to be coming back through the public safety
network or the court network. He stated the fiscal note may
reflect an up-front cost, but doesn't reflect our downstream
savings.
Number 0398
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ pointed out that the savings for
prevention of alcohol kind of runs seven to one. So we might have
a fiscal note of $2.4 million, but the savings are going to be
closer to $20 million.
CHAIR JAMES said she would be very surprised if the fiscal note
passes the Finance Committee, but she is willing to move the bill
forward to the next committee of referral.
Number 0405
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Berkowitz, Elton,
Hodgins and James voted in favor of moving the bill.
Representatives Dyson and Vezey voted against moving the bill. So
HB 329 moved out of the House State Affairs Standing Committee.
HB 449 - ROTH IRA EXEMPTION
Number 0408
CHAIR JAMES announced the committee would hear HB 449, "An Act
relating to certain individual retirement accounts," sponsored by
Representative Therriault.
Number 0418
JOSEPH BALASH, Legislative Secretary to Representative Gene
Therriault, Alaska State Legislature, came before the committee.
He read the following statement into the record:
"Under the Alaska Exemptions Act, retirement plans are protected
from creditor claims. However, it does so by listing each type of
retirement plan by reference to the Internal Revenue Code section
governing that plan.
"The 1997 Taxpayer Relief Act passed by Congress created the Roth
IRA under Internal Revenue Code Section 408A. This section will
allow taxpayers to make nondeductible contributions to a Roth IRA
and then later take all distributions from the account tax-free
subject to certain specified conditions. These qualified
distributions must be included in gross income, but for 1998 only,
the tax will be spread over four years rather than the customary
one.
"This is a great opportunity to convert all future IRA account
earnings into tax-free income and spread the current tax bite over
four years. However, those Alaskans who take advantage of this are
removing their assets from the list of those protected under state
law under the Alaska Exemptions Act.
"This option is available only during 1998. Beginning in 1999,
contributions from regular IRA accounts that are rolled into Roth
IRAs will be fully taxed in the year of the rollover. In order for
Alaskans to maintain their protection while taking advantage of
this opportunity, legislation must be passed this session."
Number 0445
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked if there has been any opposition to
the bill.
MR. BALASH indicated that he isn't aware of any opposition.
Number 0448
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS made a motion to move HB 449 out of
committee with individual recommendations and with the attached
zero fiscal notes.
CHAIR JAMES indicated there was someone wishing to give testimony.
Number 0458
THOMAS YERBICH, Attorney, testified via teleconference from
Anchorage, in support of HB 449. He noted he represents debtors in
bankruptcy. He stated he has a serious concern that if the bill is
not enacted this year, he believes a number of people will not
realize that they are giving up an important protection that
currently exists under state law.
Number 0465
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS noted the committee was just given a
proposed amendment. He then moved to adopt the amendment.
CHAIR JAMES said Representative Hodgins can't move the amendment
because there is a prior motion to move the bill. She asked
Representative Hodgins to withdraw his previous motion.
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS withdrew his motion to move the bill.
CHAIR JAMES asked if there is an objection to withdrawing the
motion to move the bill from committee.
Number 0475
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected for the purpose of discussion.
He asked, "Is the effective date so we can come in under the wire
with the upcoming tax season?"
Number 0476
MR. BALASH responded that may be a possibility. He stated, "It was
an oversight, on our part, in trying to get the legislation into
the Clerk's office before the deadline for personal legislation.
It's something we've intended to have included. As far as how it
affects this current deadline, in all reality I don't know that
that was our intention, but it may favor those who would be
affected by this."
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ withdrew his objection.
CHAIR JAMES said there is no objection to removing the motion on
the floor which was to move the bill.
Number 0485
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS moved that Amendment A-1, be adopted.
Amendment A.1 was written as follows:
Page 1, line 1, following "accounts":
Insert "; and providing for an effective date"
Page 1, following line 9:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"*Sec. 3. This Act takes effect immediately under
AS 01.10.070(c)."
CHAIR JAMES asked if there is an objection to the adoption of
Amendment 1. There being none, Amendment 1 was adopted.
Number 0419
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS made a motion to move HB 449, as amended,
out of committee with individual recommendations and with the
attached fiscal notes. There being no objection CSHB 449(STA)
moved out of the House State Affairs Standing Committee.
HB 376 - LIMIT USE OF VOTER REGISTRATION INFO
Number 0496
CHAIR JAMES announced the last order of business would be HB 376
"An Act limiting the use of voter registration information,"
sponsored by Representative Croft.
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT came before the committee to explain the
legislation. He informed the committee that Kenneth Brewster, a
constituent of his, brought the issue of privacy of voter
information to him. Representative Croft said when a person
registers to vote, that person must give information about where
they live. That makes sense as the Division of Elections has to
put you in the right election district. Currently, there is no
prohibition on the use of that information. It can be freely sold
and used for commercial purposes. Representative Croft informed
the committee that many states such Montana, Oregon and Washington
don't think that's fair and say that there shouldn't be a
commercial use of voter information. Representative Croft said if
he didn't want the government to sell his name, the only real way
to stop it is to not register to vote. He said instead of taking
Montana's, Oregon's or Washington's approach, which simply says no
commercial use of it, he talked to some of the people who are in
this business. He said he spoke to Mr. Motznik about what would be
a way to accommodate these legitimate concerns without unduly
affecting his business or other businesses. Representative Croft
said the response he got was a check box similar to the way the
Division of Motor Vehicles handles their information. It is easy
to include the information in modern data bases. If somebody
complains and says, "I don't want this used for commercial
purposes," you would simply note that and it doesn't go out in
anything that is sold to commercial organizations. If people wish
to stay on commercial lists, they can choose to do so.
Representative Croft referred to the constitutional amendment on
privacy and said it is not the most significant aspect the privacy
provision will ever invoke, but he believes it is an important one.
He said the privacy provision says that the right of privacy is
recognized and the legislature shall implement it. He said, "We
haven't done, in my opinion, a good job of over the years thinking
about and implementing privacy. This, I think, is a small step in
that direction." Representative Croft noted the fiscal note is
about $5,000, which is an estimate by the Division of Elections of
how much it would take to change their computer system to include
the check box.
Number 0549
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT pointed out that the bill provides that the
information can still be used for legitimate governmental purposes
such as legislators communicating with constituents, campaigns, et
cetera. He explained that they tried to define it as things that
are reasonably related to registering to vote. Representative
Croft explained that Mr. Brewster wrote him a note asking why he
was getting commercial mailings from Las Vegas casinos. He didn't
want the mailings as they were a nuisance. Mr. Brewster called the
mailing house who said they got the addresses off the voter list.
When Mr. Brewster asked to be removed from the list, the mailing
house said they couldn't or wouldn't do it. Representative Croft
said we ought to have the ability to vote without compromising our
ability to keep information we'd like private to stay private or to
not have it commercially available.
Number 0566
CHAIR JAMES said she sympathizes with the issue, but pointed out
that the post office sells addresses. She said there are some good
and bad commercial uses of names. Chair James said, "I can tell
you that when the little slip came by from the Department of Motor
Vehicles, when I really objected to people not being able to find
people who, by looking at a license -- not being able to find out
who owned the car, because I feel like driving on the road -- and
I have a license to be there and I want to be sure everybody else
does and if they do something that offends me, I want to know who
they are. And so I wasn't supportive of that bill, but yet when
the little slip came in the mail that says I have the opportunity
to keep my name and address, I said 'Of course I don't want to give
it to anybody else that doesn't need it.'"
CHAIR JAMES explained how she sorts her mail for real mail and
other mail. The other mail goes directly into the garbage and she
doesn't even bother to look at it. She pointed out she has that
option. She said every time we "crunch" down on things, we also
eliminate some legitimate business interest out there. Chair James
said, "I guess I'm more sensitive to this issue because it's voting
than anything else and I think we should not put any deterrents for
people to register as (indisc.) to vote." For that reason, she
said she will support the legislation. Chair James said, "By the
time we go through these lists of places where people have their
names and addresses, it's not all bad guys that do this and I
really resist in this country how we've passed laws constantly
bringing us all down to the lowest common denominator where we are
so tight that we can't even hardly move in our system and our
economic systems are deprived."
Number 0619
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said he assumes that the state isn't profiting
from the sale of the list. It's businesses like Motznik or others
that are getting the list and then profit by selling the names on
the voters registration list.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said he assumes that also. He said, "We sell
it for what's a low amount. They describe it as nominal. I've
seen the number, I don't think it's big. I don't think we're
making money off this. I think other people are." He pointed out
that there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, we could encourage
those types of business activities. Representative Croft said he
thinks that Chair James is right in that voting is on a different
plane and that you shouldn't discourage somebody who, for
legitimate or other reasons, just doesn't want to give up that
information. He stated that some people have legitimate reasons
for not wanting to give out their address.
Number 0636
CHAIR JAMES referred to legislators getting mailing labels of
constituents. She said certainly that is a commercial activity.
She asked if the bill would restrict that commercial activity for
all those who said, "No, I don't want to be included."
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT responded, "No, and we put at the very end, on
page 3, lines 2 through 6, a list of what it could be used for. It
does not include compiling, using, giving, receiving - all those,
from a voter registration list information derived from a request
by an applicant solely for law enforcement, political campaign,
election or legitimate governmental purposes. So whether compiling
it to make that use or doing that use directly, it wouldn't
prohibit those."
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT indicated there is a proposed amendment, A.1,
Glover, that would help the Division of Elections phase this in.
It does two things. Representative Croft explained the amendment
changes the effective date to February 1, 1999. The Division of
Elections requested that because they have a stack of forms and
they have a small (indisc.) of an election to run this year.
Rather than throw away a bunch of forms, they would rather phase
this in. He noted after the word "campaign," the amendment also
adds "public service groups." Representative Croft said, "We got
into a discussion of what other groups, besides this, had a
legitimate use on it. It seemed to me that mailings for political
election or public organizing type of functions ought to be
allowed. So that is what legislative drafting came up - to make
sure that public service groups...."
Number 0660
CHAIR JAMES interjected that a question that she has is what about
the people who don't want this big pile of political campaign
information to come to their mail box.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said there has got to be a limit on this. He
said it does seem to him that registering to vote logically entails
getting some campaign stuff. It doesn't necessarily logically
entail getting a bunch of other stuff. He said it seemed a logical
place to draw the line.
Number 0668
KENNETH BREWSTER testified via teleconference from Fairbanks. He
noted he is temporarily in Fairbanks, but is actually a constituent
of Representative Croft's. Mr. Brewster pointed out that it is
true that everyone sells mailing lists, but most other mailing
lists will put a note in their computer software to not sell your
name and address to other mailing lists if you ask them to do so.
Mr. Brewster said by doing that, over the last year he has
drastically reduced the junk mail he was receiving. But when he
received mailings from the Nevada gambling casinos, he called the
marketing directors to find out where they got his address, they
referred him to Speedy Mail in Anchorage. Mr. Brewster called
Speedy Mail with his request to not sell his name and address, they
told him they got their mailing list from the voter registration
roles. He asked them to take his name off the list and they
responded, "No, our software doesn't have that capability." He
suggested they upgrade their software and the response he received
was, "We don't have to, our software is approved by the postal
service."
MR. BREWSTER pointed out that he has to look at junk mail long
enough to determine that it's not of interest to him before he
throws it out. He said his time is too valuable to look through
several pieces of junk mail every day and creates an annoyance to
him. He stated that he doesn't want to be subjected to this.
Number 0691
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON moved that amendment A.1 be adopted.
Amendment A.1 follows:
Page 1, line 1, following "information":
Insert "; and providing for an effective date"
Page 2, line 23, following "not":
Insert "knowingly"
Page 2, line 29:
Delete "knowingly"
Page 3, line 5, following "campaign,":
Insert "public service."
Page 3, following line 10:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 5. This Act takes effect February 1, 1999."
CHAIR JAMES asked if there was an objection to the adoption of
Amendment A.1. There being none, Amendment A.1 was adopted.
Number 0697
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move HB 376, as amended, out
of committee with individual recommendations and with the attached
fiscal note.
CHAIR JAMES asked if there was an objection. There being none,
CSHB 376(STA) moved out of the House State Affairs Standing
Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 0701
CHAIR JAMES adjourned the House State Affairs Standing Committee
meeting at 9:56 a.m.
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